The great keyboard showdown.
My MS Natural Keyboard is grimy. Not just the key surfaces (which I haven’t cleaned in a while, now that the ‘board lives at the office and not at home where I have numerous surfactants close to hand), but the keypress mechanisms. The more force I have to use to push each key through its accreted gunk, the less “natural” the keyboard becomes, veering instead into the general milieu of “tiring” and “painful.”
I’m not sure how effectively I can repair the key action. I suppose I could do the old keyboard-in-the-dishwasher trick to get it all soapy clean, but I’m afraid the end result will be even stickier keys (the detergent having stripped off whatever magic lube is supposed to be in there).
While I mull my keyboard’s prospects for recovery, why don’t you all tell me why I’m using the wrong keyboard and what I should really get is some expensive Keyboard From The New World (Op. 9). Humbly proffer your suggestions in the comments.
17 responses
Actually, the MS Natural Keyboard is pretty great IMO. I have no idea how you can fix it, although your dishwasher idea doesn’t sound bad — I’d try to use the “no heat dry” option, though.
It’s been a while since my main computer had a detached keyboard, but the last time it did, it was an Apple Extended Keyboard II. I miss that hunk o’ plastic, I really do. About the only other thing I’d have in its place is an IBM Model M, but I think I’d drive everyone in the house bat**** crazy with one of those. Clack clack clack….
comment posted at 7:28 pm on 06 Jul 2007
Another vote for the glory that is buckling spring design, the IBM Model M. They are durable, more resistant to dirt than dome switch designs, and heavy enough to wield as a blunt instrument. I’ve got two, so I can annoy in stereo.
comment posted at 11:00 pm on 06 Jul 2007
marginally off-topic, but I thought I’d share my theory of the windows key. I think there was a guerilla mac user on the MS Natural Keyboard design team who needed to come up with a reason for another bucky key, thus allowing the keyboard to be naturally used with macs.
No doubt some spoiler out there will point out that the original MS Natural Keyboard had a PS/2 interface, or some other trifling detail, but that’s really beside the point.
comment posted at 2:05 pm on 08 Jul 2007
Blair & Brian,
You guys are clearly in need of the Matias Tactile Pro keyboard, which purports to emulate exactly the keyfeel of the ADB Extended II and the old clacky IBMs.
comment posted at 5:18 pm on 08 Jul 2007
Can you say, “Kinesis?” I can.
comment posted at 11:29 pm on 08 Jul 2007
Well, the Model M doesn’t feel like the Extended II keyboard. The IBM requires more force per keystroke and has that last bit of tactile feedback at the very bottom of the action, sort of a “twing,” if you will. The Apple is a bit lighter on the action and has somewhat more conventional switches that simply hit the end of their travel and bounce back. I vastly prefer both to the membrane-style keyboards, many of which seem to rely solely on the membrane itself for tactile feedback. (And, on a side note, I have no idea how I managed to acquire any sort of taste or preference for a keyboard. I am, sadly, as dorky as I’m afraid I am.)
comment posted at 5:43 am on 09 Jul 2007
@blair: I don’t see how anyone who uses keyboards on a daily basis could avoid developing a preference.
Are there people who drive but don’t have any kind of preferences about cars (including stick/auto)?
comment posted at 10:51 am on 09 Jul 2007
@derrley: Can you say $300 I don’t have?
comment posted at 10:52 am on 09 Jul 2007
Actually, this brings up a good point. The Kinesis people argue that the impact of your finger at the end of the keystroke causes stress, pain, climate change, etc. Is that really true, especially when absent that direct force feedback, you have to use your own finger muscles to halt your finger after you hear a clicking noise? Seems like there’d be muscle stress in that case as well.
Kinesiologists, please weigh in.
comment posted at 10:57 am on 09 Jul 2007
I can’t imagine that there would be much ergonomic benefit to that part of the keystroke. Either way, you’ve got downward finger motion that you have to stop; seems like any method you pick will cause something. Now, this might be an argument for lighter keystrokes, a feature that you certainly won’t find on a Model M. No, not by a long shot. Those things just might give you bulging finger muscles (which are not located within your actual fingers).
On the Kinesis itself: I don’t know enough to judge whether that kb has ergonomic benefit, although I would guess that it does. On a matter of principle, though, I’d rather not use something quite so unconventional. I work, and will continue to work, in an environment where my primary computer might barely occupy half of my computer usage time. I don’t want to develop a muscle memory for a peculiar keyboard layout that will hamper my speed anywhere but at my desk. It’s not quite so bad to switch back and forth from an MSNK, but the Kinesis? Not sure. Perhaps more importantly, I don’t have Kinesis money either. From an ergonomic perspective, I’d rather get a well constructed conventional keyboard and work to reinforce proper sitting/typing position. That way I minimize stress and injury no matter where I happen to be.
I’ll add one caveat to this wandering comment. While I face plenty of writing, my career is not defined by being at a computer eight hours a day. I think that’s why I place less emphasis on absolute ergonomics at one particular location, and instead place greater importance on adapting as much as possible to a given environment.
comment posted at 2:23 pm on 09 Jul 2007
Good news: dealnews emailed me to let me know that the MS Natural 4000 is on sale for $30 + shipping.
Bad news: Apparently the keyfeel is so-so (or at least varies widely between units) and the spacebar is a misery. According to the following detailed review from someone who cares about his keyboards:
Oh, noes.
comment posted at 8:45 pm on 11 Jul 2007
Hey, interesting: a tiny little keyclick generator for the Mac.
comment posted at 10:35 pm on 18 Jul 2007
i use the ms natural keyboard. it does get grimy though. i read somewhere that a typical office/work keyboard has WAY more germs than a toilet seat.
i bought a compressed air gun , but as for removing the keys and soaping them down… it’s easier to just buy a new keyboard :D the most i can be arsed to do is wipe off the tops once in a while.
comment posted at 11:01 am on 19 Jul 2007
I was trained to touch type in 1982 by the US Airforce on old manual typewriters (that had no doubt taught WWII, Korea and Vietnam vets to type as well). You had to really bang the he11 out of those machines to get them to imprint the type on the page – and so I took that little quirk with me going forward.
Over the years I’ve used IBM selectric (ball and daisywheel) electric typewriters, IBM Ms, and various computer terminal keyboards — all the ‘clicky’ type.
My last ‘clicky’ keyboard was on the Toshiba T12 laptop – and even though it had a small keyboard – it was a full keyboard for the home keys – and had the best tactile feedback and comfort of any before or since.
After years of banging away — and I continued to BANG the new so-called ‘quiet’ keyboards to the continued annoyance of my family and coworkers, as I said a quirk of my training — through a selection of the new style membrane keyboards (which I utterly destroyed) – I started to have symptoms of tendonitis in my wrists and pain in my fingers.
Not able to afford the ‘Ergonomic’ keyboards available at that time – luck would have it that Microsoft would come out with the Natural keyboard – and relatively cheap too. So I got one – not expecting any miracles. Just the act of moving my wrists out and more in-line and the slight rotation afforded by the angled surface allowed me to continue typing. The symptoms in my wrists went away (so far so good). So it was an improvement and I now use this keyboard exclusively (have two at home and one at work).
There is still a problem that I need to address – I still bang the heck out of the keyboard, and occasionally have to stop typing with soreness in my fingers. As with all of the membrane keyboards, I’ve never been able to go as fast as with the old buckling spring keyboards. The effect of the BS keys is the strong spring action – while giving feedback – also provides a damper for the force of classically trained touch typist. When you are typing away at full speed on the old keyboards, you were not actually depressing the keys, as much as striking them. When you struck the keys, the impact would actually drive the key down to make contact, but your finger would not be along for the whole ride – having moved on to another key a split second before impact. I think this is why I did not notice finger pain until the new membrane keyboards took over the scene. You can not effectively accomplish the same typing method using the membrane keyboards because the travel of the keys is not as deep, and therefore you end up with your fingers impacting the bottom of travel with a ‘thud!’ This is also why keyboardists who have learned on a modern membrane keyboard have what I can only describe as a ‘fluttering’ approach (massaging the keys rather than striking them). Membrane keyboards are quiet and cost less – but are not good for performance (life is too short to wait on your keyboard).
What I need is a keyboard that is adjustable (because I can also see that moving the adjustment around from time to time so as not to get repetitive injuries is a good thing) and also has the BS mechanism to absorb the force of my fingers. What I’ve seen so far that seems to fit the bill is the Kinesis Maxim – it allows the keyboard surface ‘tent’ angle to be adjusted to three settings, and the ‘split’ angle smoothly beyond what is standard on the MS Natural keyboard. It also has those clicky keys. The current price is $125 – a bit steep – but probably worth it given the results I’ve seen from changing up with the Natural keyboard. Additionally, you will need to purchase a seperate 10 key module because the keyboard doesn’t come with it ($59) – if needed. I could see moving the 10 key over to the left side, and moving the mouse in closer on the right – thus balancing out the placement (or better yet getting one of those gaming keypads for the left side for a lot less $$ — I don’t do 10 key anyway – I type the numbers using the number keys above the keyboard as a touch typist).
As for cleaning the natural keyboard – I’ve taken mine apart, and used a brush to get the large/loose crud off the membrane (e.g. key bank sits on top of (silicon? rubber?)membrane, which sits on top of wire contact array). The keys are set in three trays – banks if you will – all plastic – with a few small metal actuaters on some of the larger keys. Soaking in soapy water on the key banks, the membrane and the keyboard ‘box’ is fine — be sure to remove the controller board/cable and metal contacts template – use canned air on these – they usually don’t have any gunk because the membrane absorbs it before it gets down there in most cases.
While the keyboard may work after being washed in the dishwasher – I wouldn’t recommend it because undoubtably water may get inside onto the electronics and wire contacts – leading to faster corrosion and a shorter lifespan. Of course, since the basic Natural keyboard is about $25 — not a big deal. Personally, I would rather not add more junk to the landfill if I don’t have to.
One interesting point to note — apparently there are different models of the basic MS natural keyboard. I’ve tried replacing a bad cable on a newer keyboard by using the older keyboard’s cable – the pin-outs on the cable (and thus the controller card) are different between models. I tried swapping the controller out and found that the mapping of the wires coming into the controller on the contact array is also different. Furthermore, trying to use the old contact array in the new keyboard also failed – one actuator point on each blank (all three trays) was offset – and thus the contact arrays are different between models made in different years (if you must know – the three keys effected were, both ‘Enter’ keys and the left shift key). I don’t know if this was a result of ‘product improvement’ or a systematic attempt to make the product non-backwards compatible (I am leaning towards the latter).
comment posted at 8:26 am on 07 Aug 2007
@amar: see also: http://xkcd.com/237/
@Joe: Thanks for the excellent story! I wonder if that Matias Tactile keyboard would give you the resistance you’re looking for.
Finally, I solved my keyboard grime and keyfeel problems in two ways:
I did end up cleaning my MS Natural. I unfortunately cleaned it too well, and so the keys stuck worse than before, not because of grime but instead because the very-clean plastic was binding up against itself. I guess that there must have been some fine lubricant applied to all the keys at the factory (in addition to the gross lube on the large metal-bar-keys, which I incidentally wiped away as well, making those keys totally useless.)
An excellent replacement lubricant was eventually found in Vaseline®, after first trying a number of other household compounds (tip: do not even think about using an organic solvent like WD40—if it miraculously fails to dissolve any delicate traces or rubber membrane, it will still cause plastic parts to bind up very badly). A little dab on the metal-bar keys made them a little “thick” feeling but quite smooth and almost as good as new.
I picked up the Natural 4000 anyway, on the cheap thanks to dealnews.com.
comment posted at 10:46 pm on 08 Aug 2007
Of course, now that I’ve got a new keyboard, they go and release this. No indication of whether there’s any ergonomic benefit (beyond maybe the fancy industrial design silently rotating your chakras or whatever), but still. Frigtards.
comment posted at 10:58 pm on 08 Aug 2007
Daniel, great thread which I’m now bumping a bit late, please excuse me … really appreciated the amazing variety of different views.
I can only offer two comments, one: a teflon-based spray lubricant is another alternative to Vaseline that I have had some success with on keyboards (it revitalized my 1986 Model M to an incredible degree), and two: I can’t handle key-travel as short as those Apple keyboards you linked to. I can put up with it on a laptop but one of the reasons to use a desktop is the luxury of having a keyboard with no compromises.
comment posted at 4:11 am on 02 Apr 2009